The Wellbeing Hour #40 The Voice of Gen Z: Workplace Mental Health

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Wellbeing Hour Panel Generation Z

Amy: Welcome everybody. Welcome to the Headtorch Wellbeing Hour with me, Amy McDonald.
Angus: and me, Angus Robinson. And we have a very special Wellbeing Hour today. We have our panel guests here, Debbie Aikamhenze from Spirax, we have Aoife Murphy from Baillie Gifford, and we have Elliot Sorby from Altrad. This is also the 40th Wellbeing Hour we have done.
So, yeah, it’s a birthday Wellbeing Hour. So a heads up, we’re recording this and you’ll be able to listen to this as a podcast later. It is on all the usual podcast channels like Spotify. Please do follow us on them, we really appreciate it and it does make a difference. The Wellbeing Hour is an important extension of our work. We work with organisations to create mentally healthy cultures.
I’ll be back in a little while to field some of your questions to our guests. Amy.
Amy: Thanks. And we’re looking forward to those thoughts and questions from those of you who are joining us live today, together with us. Our guests and what guests we have. We’re very excited to be hosting this panel event on the Wellbeing Hour. And as you may well know, the title of this session is the voice of a generation, the workplace mental health.
So for those of you who are with us here today, we have a question for you to be thinking about as we go into conversation, and that question is this, What’s important to you for workplace mental health? So, as we go into conversation with the three members of the panel, please be adding your thoughts, ideas and any further questions into the chat and a little later on, Angus and I will field those thoughts and questions.
So with us today, we have Debbie Aikamhenze, who is a sales engineer at Spirax Group, who manufactures steam generators. Debbie studied chemical engineering, and a year of which, she was in Malaysia, and whilst there, she supported the Engineering Without Borders project, providing energy from renewable sources to rural and off grid communities.
Debbie went on to pursue a Masters in Energy with entrepreneurship. We also have today, I’m delighted to say, Aoife Murphy, who is a Shareholder Services Administrator at Baillie Gifford. which is an asset management organization. Aoife’s work there has already offered her an amazing opportunity to work in New York, in their New York City branch for a year.
So, she’s just fresh back from the Big Apple. Aoife studied international relations and during that time, she worked with Conscious, which is a student led mental health charity. Now at Baillie Gifford, she’s part of the Mental Health and Wellbeing Group.
And last but by no means least, we have, the wonderful Elliott Sorby, who is an environmental officer with ALTRAD, which is an industrial services company. Elliott studied environmental geography and went on to do a master’s in environmental management. And after studying, he travelled to Australia where, amongst other things, he was a cocktail barman and, wait for it, he was recruited by an American football team in Brisbane that go by the name of Griffith Thunder.
So, it’s an absolute delight to have you all with us here today. Please, let’s, hear from you now. Do introduce yourselves with your mystery object. Debbie, we’ll start if we may with you.
Debbie: Perfect. Thanks, Amy. Good morning, afternoon or evening, everyone. My mystery object is my journal. So I don’t know if you can see that well. Yeah, so I carry this with me everywhere, to be honest. Whether on holiday, you name it. And if it ever gets full, I have a digital journal on my iPad. So that’s just a bit about me.
So, for me, journaling is really important, just to like clear my head, clear my thoughts, and sometimes I think I’m more of a note taker, so if I have a to do list as well, I might put it in my journal, forgetting I have a work one, and so it’s really a big part of me, and just writing down things, and whether it’s a lyric that’s popped in my head or something I thought of to do later, whatever it is, I go put that in my journal.
Amy: Lovely. Thank you, Debbie. Next, let’s hear from Aoife.
Aoife: Hi, my mystery object is my slightly muddy running trainers that I’ve popped next to me
here, but I think this just says a lot about who I am. I think that running is really good for my confidence. I find that when I run distances that I didn’t know that I could run before, it’s great for my self esteem.
I think, also I’m someone that really loves routine. And you really need that with running. You need the, consistency and the persistence, and that’s something that I really value that it helps me with. And then also just fresh air and taking a step away from everything else to just go do something on my own and get out of my head.
So it’s really important to me.
Amy: Fantastic. And the question remains, did you run round Central Park?
Aoife: Most days. Yeah, it was great. It’s much flatter than Scotland, which was very welcome.
Amy: Excellent. lovely to welcome you in Aoife. And Elliott,
Elliott: Thank you, Amy. It’ll come as no surprise after your introduction that my mystery item is my American football helmet, which I now can’t get to focus.
Amy: Wow, look at that.
Elliott: So, this is my current one, and it’s my item because it’s everything to do with my team. I love playing sport and the sense of community and teamwork you get, particularly in a contact sport, where I think there’s that sense of looking out for each other is heightened even more when it comes to, big tackles and things like that.
But also alongside it, it just comes with physical and mental wellbeing for me, like American football is very much in two phases. In the classroom, you need to go and learn your playbook and study the opposition, and then out on the pitch training with all your friends in the gym, all sorts of things.
So it really is a central piece of what I do in my leisure and how I look after myself.
Amy: Wow. Fantastic. Great. So it sounds like you’re all into definitely looking after yourselves, whether that’s journaling, which is, as we know, a proven way to, to look after yourselves and of course, sport as well. So thank you so much for joining us, let’s dive in, now to our conversation and find out your thoughts, opinions, ideas around workplace mental health.
So, our first question to you is, that, there’s a significant mental health crisis, in the younger population. We know this to be a fact. What do you notice? We’ll start with you, Elliott, on this one.
Elliott: Thanks, Amy. for me, I think centrally to that problem is the rise of social media. I think young people now are under a lot more scrutiny from not just their peers, but even wider afoot because of the connectivity of social media. Whereas if you go back 25, 30 odd years, there might be a few printed out pictures of yourself, whereas now everyone sees everything you do and there’s almost this measuring stick mentality with how people view others actions on social media, and I think just the rise of that and the globalization that’s come with that is a big part of it.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely. Debbie, what’s your thoughts on this question around the significance of the mental health crisis amongst the younger population?
Debbie: Yeah, I definitely, I think probably even similar to social media is being connected and that’s in-person connections. We find that since Covid, a lot of things have moved online. So you might have a group that’s now online, you might work remotely, you might work from home. So I think a lot of young people are sometimes missing
that face to face connection with people and that face to face interaction, whether it’s in the workplace, whether it’s with pen pals or friends or people they’ve met online, people they know online that they’ve never really met in person. And there’s something that comes differently with having in person friends that you see in person and then people that you talk to over the phone,
the little things that you can do in person that you can’t do over the phone. And I do think that will impact your mental health, how you see yourself as well, and how you interact with other people.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely. It makes a huge difference, doesn’t it? What are your thoughts, Aoife?
Aoife: Yeah, I think it’s an interesting one. I think that it’s also important to recognize that we have a lot more vocabulary in the younger generation, for mental health issues and there’s a lot more being said about it that was maybe said in the past. And I think, your teens and your twenties and even, into your thirties, very transitional periods of life and people are experiencing a lot of change,
and I think it’s natural to, face challenges through those times. So I think maybe we are speaking about it more and that is suggesting that there are higher numbers than maybe previous generations have seen. But I think at the same time it is quite a difficult time for young people as well, I think.
With things like a challenging job market, there’s a cost of living crisis, there’s, changes to how things work after COVID, there’s even these huge, geopolitical events going on that can take a big toll on your mental health as well. So I think, yeah, in combination, those things can aggravate
Mental health issues that are already there as well.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, definitely that, just the general, zeitgeist, isn’t it, of what’s going around, impacts us on a day to day and that impact of, social media and not as you say, Debbie, not perhaps having as much face to face, as, as traditionally perhaps, other generations have had, can all take its toll.
Some say that Gen Z is the snowflake generation, not the best terminology, really. What do you think? Let’s start with you, Debbie, on this.
Debbie: Yeah, it’s an interesting one because I’ve never heard the term in person or in conversation, but I’ve seen it a lot on social media. so I’m always,
it’s always a case of whether it’s the masses that are hearing this snowflake generation, or if it’s just something that people have posted on social media and keeps getting trickled down and then maybe that’s how people hear about it.
But in terms of being a snowflake generation, I think it’s perhaps weaker than other generations. I think that’s what it’s supposed to mean, and in terms of being a snowflake. I do think I would disagree with it. I think people in our generation, it’s like, can I say a case, but every individual is different.
You can’t group or generalize and say everyone in this generation is we have had more access to social media, phones, growing up, so that might affect how we think, how we act differently, how, let’s say, easy information comes to us. You can go on Google and find an answer to anything. So it may seem we don’t work as hard for information, but with the likes of ChatGPT, there’s skill in using ChatGPT, there’s skill in using some of these platforms.
all OK, yes, you can ask Google and Google will give you an answer. But there is an element of, I think people have even started posting to get output out of ChatGPT.
There are certain prompts you need to ask to get specific outputs. I personally, the snowflake thing as well, I think I’m a person that likes to prove people wrong. So I think a lot of people of my generation will be actually, no, you’ve called me this, I want to prove you otherwise.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s what happens with stereotyping, right? Those not, that don’t fit under that banner, then have to work a lot harder to prove themselves, which is ridiculous in a way, isn’t it? Aoife, what’s your thoughts on this notion of the snowflake generation?
Aoife: Yeah. I would disagree with it too. I think that, going back to what Debbie said about access to information, I think people are exposed to so many different viewpoints that they wouldn’t have been in the past. And as a result, that’s going to lead to more dissenting opinions, to more, conflicting beliefs and people are exposed to things that maybe they didn’t grow up with, they don’t believe in.
And As a result, people are going to be more easily hurt and we’re going to see that online. We’re going to see that, kind of disagreement play out in a way that never would have happened in the past. So I think largely this kind of idea that younger people are maybe more sensitive or being hurt by others opinions more is a natural result of that.
I don’t think that it’s necessarily actually to do with behaviour.
Amy: Okay, yeah, absolutely. Thanks Aoife. Elliott, what’s your thinking?
Elliott: Yes, similar to you both. I think painting the entire generation with one word is counterintuitive, it doesn’t work. It’s not a thing. Like you said, Debbie, it’s all individuals. I do think that words like snowflake and these stereotypical words, I think they come from a root of something.
I do think that someone didn’t just make that up one day. It’s from negative experiences with an individual, but like we say, that’s then caught all of that sort of snowball effect right across the board and everyone is now referring to this generation as the snowflakes and it’s being handed to them and everything.
But, similar with Debbie, I, it’s not how I’ve been, I’ve not been raised in that sort of way. I pride myself on my work and working hard and making sure that I stand out and I’m recognized for that work because of the effort put in rather than the preconceived notions of right, what age are you?
Okay, this person’s going to be, lazy or I can’t speak to them the way I speak to other people and things like that. I think it is lazy to use the word snowflake as a generalization.
Amy: Yeah, absolutely lazy. and is it something to do with that laziness do you think that, you talked earlier, Debbie, didn’t you, about how you’ve maybe not heard it directly, but you’ve seen it on social media. So it’s almost using literally using that screen to, to hide behind. Does anybody want to comment on that? Yeah. On you go, Debbie.
Debbie: Yeah I do think it, it could be, because I’d probably pose this to Aoife or Elliott, I don’t know if in your presence or in your communities or even in the workplace, if you’ve ever heard a colleague being called a snowflake or have had that addressed to you, because I’ve not come across it, but I do think, with social media, without that face to face, some things you can say to somebody online, you may never actually say it face to face.
Because there could be that timidity that, oh, there’s other people, how does that come across? But I think social media just gives you, what you’re behind a mask. And this is a platform, nobody needs to know who you are, it could even be a troll as well. And so there’s sometimes that gutsiness that you might have, because nobody’s seeing you,
that you don’t have in person when you have to say this in front of other people.
Amy: might counter argue that with, actually it’s cowardice. Isn’t it? it’s not actually gutsy ness to put things together. blatant stereotyping out on the, on social media. But tying in with what you were saying, Elliott, about, there is a root cause somewhere, it’s, perhaps there are one or two people, who have, who, from whom it has literally snowballed, and the stereotype has appeared.
Let’s start with you with this question, Aoife. If I was your colleague, and my whole attitude to work was, I’m just, I’m showing up, however, I do expect kind of everything for nothing is my kind of attitude. What would you do in that, circumstance if I was your colleague?
Aoife: yeah, I think the first thing to do would be to communicate that’s something that I wasn’t comfortable with. I think that in my position as someone more junior and from a younger generation, that can sometimes feel really difficult, and, I’m a few years in now and I’m still learning about how to communicate in a workplace and set my own boundaries, with people that are maybe more senior or have more years of experience with me, and it can be hard, but I think being direct about
your own worth and believing in that at work and saying, this is what I’m contributing and I need you to contribute as well, is really important. Another thing that I’d add to that is just leading by example and demonstrating to others how you want them to behave.
through the way that you behave too. Just yeah, leading by example, showing other people the respect that you want to receive with regards to work and contributions within a team. And, at that point, if they’re not respecting that and not giving that back, you can raise it with them and communicate.
Amy: Brilliant. Yeah. Leading by example. Elliott, what are your thoughts on this?
Elliott: Yeah, I think that sort of issue of a colleague or someone not having that effort or showing the laziness and not wanting to do things, I think in terms of approaching that, I think it comes from a lot of people in this generation, like we were talking about earlier, sorry to go back to it, but the social media, I think as a result of things like that and the upbringing we’ve had with all this connectivity is that people have now got deep rooted issues with self belief and things and I think that can actually be the root of a lazy worker is that they’re maybe viewing themselves as not capable of completing additional tasks and things like this and I’ve had actually this happen before.
It’s someone my age that I knew very well at a workplace and I came in late as a part time employee and then from there took on more responsibility and they were reluctant to take on these responsibilities and they were full time so management were becoming frustrated. But, and I think because of the way they act and the demand of, Oh, come on, you’re so lazy to do this.
Like, why are you not doing this? We’re going to sack you, blah, blah, blah. Whereas I had to cover one day and I sat with them and walked them through the process and encouraged them to do it and was right up by their side helping them out. And from there on, that was their new role. They stepped right into it, and when I left that business, that was their thing, they were still doing it. And, and making new progress, yeah. So, I think it’s about how you frame it. I think the approach isn’t the way it’s always been anymore in a workplace. I think there needs to be that degree of encouragement and positivity around it because I don’t think anyone in this world responds well to just outright negativity about their inability to do something.
Amy: Yeah, well said. So it’s it follows on, doesn’t it, from what you were saying, Aoife, of, you’re coaching by example there, Elliott, as opposed to leading by example, right?
Elliott: Yeah, exactly. Um think if you can see something like that and recognize it and You’re in a position to try and help out or turn it around. I think if you have what they need for that help, I think you should be able to step forward and try and help out because just sitting doing nothing doesn’t benefit anyone at all.
And again, like I said, in that situation management, were just going to increasingly get more frustrated. So by doing that, you’re alleviating stresses across the office, not just on that individual.
Amy: yeah, totally. Have you got anything to add into the mix there, Debbie? Yeah,
Debbie: I think my approach would probably be very similar to Aoife’s, and I do agree that as a younger person, there will be that, oof, is it right to say that I can’t give you everything for anything? But I think that communication, one on one communication piece has to happen, because the moment that’s demanded, the quality of work goes down, if you’re giving everything for nothing.
and stress as well is a factor. So everything will just trickle down on that individual that’s expected to have to do everything to get nothing in return. So my approach would have to be something very similar to what’s already mentioned. I
Amy: yeah. Let’s take it on too me thing a bit different, let’s take it on to what you need to feel confident and empowered at work. So, so Elliott, what would you be looking for in terms of, of that?
Elliott: For me, I think what’s paramount in that is the atmosphere and the culture of being able to just openly speak and to have the tougher conversations without, a fear or a consequence when you’re raising something genuine. I think that’s something I’ve been really lucky with in management that I’ve had, that, I’m always empowered to speak and take accountability for my own job set and speak to people with that same rapport. But I do think it’s that initial feeling of just being comfortable in the environment to speak,
Amy: So feeling psychologically safe is essentially to say what you need to stay without any fear of comeback or retribution. Debbie. Yeah. Brilliant. Debbie, what about you? what do you need to feel confident and empowered?
Debbie: I was going to say the psychological safety piece, and I think somebody mentioned it in the chat as well. But I would also say it probably is psychological safety as well, but a platform where people always say no question is stupid, ask any question, but a platform where when you actually do ask what you may think is a stupid question, it doesn’t get received as if it’s a silly question.
And so a platform where you are bold enough, brave enough, or it just feels like you can ask any question, whether it’s been asked 10 times before, it’s never been asked before.
Amy: Yeah. Fantastic. And Aoife, what’s the best for you in terms of feeling confident and empowered?
Aoife: Yeah, I think, something that I mentioned at the beginning with regards to running but feeling capable is really important for my sense of self confidence and self esteem and I think being given, enough independence at work to prove to myself that I can do things is really important for me.
And I guess hand in hand with that is just being trusted to get the job done. I think that, any kind of helicopter management I’ve always struggled with, and actually has made my performance worse because instead of worrying about doing my job well, I’m worrying about what someone thinks I’m doing.
So, in my current role, from the get go, I’ve been given a lot of just independence and trust and said, if you have issues, come, but otherwise we know you’re going to get the job done. And that’s been great for my sense of self worth and just getting past things like imposter syndrome and things like that,
and just knowing that I’m able to do my job well.
Amy: Yeah. Wonderful. So really empowering you to do what, to work the way that works best for you. Great. Lovely. Post Covid, CIPD, Chartered Institute of Personal Development, they ran a survey and it showed that most people would find a new job now if their mental health was not being looked after, supported, promoted, protected.
So what do you think, what do you think is the expectation now in terms of what the workplace should be offering you? And let’s start with you, Debbie, on this.
Debbie: it’s going to come back down to that psychological safety, as a first. Somewhere where people feel safe enough to be themselves and safe enough to communicate. My role is sales and it’s a lot of, I don’t want to say button heads, but a lot of challenging things. So it’s safe enough to challenge things because sometimes an organization has been doing the same thing for a long time and change needs to happen, in order to see, to even generate more profit or to just see your workplace grow and get better.
So a place where people feel safe to do those things. And, but I also think in terms of when people do fall ill or bereavement or certain things that happen naturally, a place where someone can communicate that and get time off for that, whether it’s bereavement or they need to care for someone in their family as well, because times are changing.
Flexibility needs to be possible for people where there’s an older generation, in the UK especially, and people will have commitments maybe to look after a child or a parent. So the flexibility to be able to do that. I think it’s an expectation, yeah.
Amy: Great. Thank you, Debbie. And Aoife what’s your thoughts on this then?
Aoife: Yeah, my, my biggest one, I think that the impression that I get young people are looking for is flexibility. I think that there is a misconception that all of the kind of younger workforce just want to work from home and don’t ever want to see the doors of an office and, don’t want nine to five and want to be doing whatever they want, whenever they want for work.
And I think that’s actually not accurate, but I do think that people are looking for their employer to demonstrate and have policies in place that say, look, we understand that you might, as Debbie said, have caring responsibilities or, medical needs or, mental health issues that maybe it’s beneficial for you to work from home one day a week, twice a week, and we can accommodate that.
Because younger people are seeing it being accommodated. We saw it during COVID and we have that track record now that it is possible.
Amy: So yeah, I think it’s not going to be a one size fits all and in terms of flexibility that’s going to look completely different for everyone. But I really think that young people are just looking for employers that recognize that and have kind of policies in place to demonstrate that they can accommodate that.
yeah. So what would you say to the young person that is demanding that they want to have all their time at home?
Aoife: I personally don’t think that is the best way to work. I think it can sound very idyllic and very freeing and, like a great option, but, in terms of learning, especially in your early years of your career, learning and building a network of people, I think that it’s just, you can’t do the same from home and you very quickly realise that.
I was on a rotational grad program for my first year, in my, at my company. And those first weeks in a new rotation, I absolutely needed to be in the office sitting next to someone every single day, because it’s so different trying to learn from someone over Teams when you’re not next to them, you’ve got a million questions than, just sitting next to them and walking through it with them.
And it just, you can’t get that experience from home, especially not in the early stages. So I would encourage younger people to, look for a balance rather than looking for fully work from home, but everyone’s also going to be different and have different needs.
Amy: Absolutely, yeah. I think it’s that, it’s going back to that coaching, encouraging, leading by example stuff. Although, of course, it’s different. It’s not the same for everyone, Debbie, because you work remotely pretty much most of the time.
Debbie: Yeah, no, I work remotely most of the time, and I think I would have to agree, having worked pretty much almost a year, where Monday to Friday I’m remotely, and if I’m not remotely, then I’m on a customer site. There’s a clear difference when I’m on a customer site and my manager is there or someone else from my team is there.
Things that you, I heard this quote again today, like you can tell somebody something and it will go in one ear, come out the other, and that’s with Teams. But once you see something done practically, or you can ask somebody face to face, the way you retain that is so different to if you were just reading a book or reading something online.
That face to face interaction, that building relationships, that seeing when or somebody’s not comfortable. I can see that when I’m in person with my manager, with our distributors, but on Teams, cameras off, you only speak when you need to speak. It’s a completely different ballgame. You might not want disturb somebody on Teams, so you’re, you spend a whole day trying to figure something out when it could have been a 30 second question you asked if you were facing the person.
Oh
Amy: So actually, the mainstay of your work is remote, but you still get that regular contact, and you still, and you also get to go to amazing places like Malta where you are right now, right?
Debbie: Yeah, no, it definitely has its perks, yeah, so when I’m not at home, I’m in a different country or a different city, so I can’t complain.
Amy: We’ll move you on Elliott to our next question, which is, if you and your peers were in charge for the day, what would the workplace look like?
Elliott: I think it’s a good question. I think in a day you can’t achieve everything you would want to achieve, but harping back to what I’ve been saying since the beginning, since my mystery item here, I think that sense of community and openness and being able to speak and having conversations with people, I think that would be where I would start.
I think it’s so important that there’s a culture like that. You’re not coming into the office every day, sitting next to someone who you don’t know who they are, and they don’t know who you are, and you can’t even go, how was your weekend? I think you can really feel that atmosphere when you come into certain offices.
If that’s not there, it’s evident immediately, whereas in the ones where it is there, and I think it’s reflective of a healthy culture, I think that’s a really important thing. So with only a day, I think I’d just walk around and have a good natter with everyone and get to know people and make sure people knew who everybody was and have sort of discussion.
Amy: Great, wonderful. And what about you Aoife, what would you have in the workplace if you were in charge for the day?
Aoife: I think that, younger people, I can’t speak for older generations, but I get the sense that younger people are looking for different ways of working. I know that when I have meetings with my peers, we often like to go for a walk. We like to get away from our desks, get away from meeting rooms,
and speak outside. And while that’s not always practical for every meeting, I think that being flexible in your approach to how you do your work can be really helpful. So, yeah, if I was in charge of the day, I’d ban meeting rooms, get outside,
Amy: Perfect, lovely. And Debbie, what about you?
Debbie: I’ve actually been asked this question as part of my grad scheme, and I think we said global co-working spaces, so if somebody had travelled to Spain and we have an office in Spain, instead of shortening their trip, they could extend it and stay the additional two days working from the office in Spain, meeting their global colleagues and growing a global network.
Amy: Oh wow, great, fantastic, amazing. Angus, would you like to join us now and tell us what the good people who have joined us here for this session have been talking about in the chat. And if you recall, we are posing this question to everybody here today. What’s important to you for workplace wellbeing?
So do continue to share your thoughts in the chat.
Angus: First comment we have is from Mark Shelby. Hello, Mark. Good to see you there. And, he’s saying a feeling of, a sense of belonging to our team and organisation. So, I’ll put that to Aoife. What do you think, Aoife to that?
Aoife: Yeah, I think that’s really important and actually, having joined my workplace on a graduate program, I think that I had that inbuilt sense of community and network that not everyone gets when they join a new workplace and have found it extremely beneficial. Just being able to have the social human connection,
in the office, as well as the kind of professional work connection can add so much to your day and leave you feeling so much more fulfilled, so I definitely think that’s really important.
Angus: Thank you. And Debbie I know that, you do a lot by traveling with your work but it’s a bit harder when you’re working from home, most of the time. So what would you say to that comment?
Debbie: I 110 percent agree. I think time with people, face to face is important. I think there’s great flexibility that comes from working from home and having laser focus where there isn’t chat around you or let’s get up for a coffee, 15 minutes, come back to the desk.
I think having a team when you work remotely is very different from having a team when you guys see each other in the office. And sometimes people just get caught up in their day to day that you almost forget if you’re working from home. Oh, I’ve got three people that I’m in a team with. The days, weeks can pass by.
But I think to feel like you belong as part of a team when you do work from home, it’s important to have those like weekly catch ups and something I have with my managers every Monday morning, we will have a one hour catch up. 20 minutes could be about how your weekend was, something really random,
and then we actually go into what’s going on this week and you request any support. And that’s really helped me with a sense of belonging to a team. And we’ll have monthly team meetings and monthly sales meetings whereby we actually do have to put on our cameras, they’re starting to enforce that, so you do start to see people’s faces and not just hide behind the camera and only speak when you need to speak.
So if there is someone that does fully work remotely from home, maybe encourage your organisation to do things like that where you do have monthly meetings or weekly meetings.
Angus: Thank you.
Amy: Amanda Way, you’re saying, commenting, making a great comment here around this, this, derogatory term, snowflake, as you say, I think the term snowflake is used, in a jokey way sometimes, as if it’s not a big deal, but it is a derogatory term. So I’m not surprised that people don’t say it to people’s face.
It reminds me of times when women get annoyed about something in the workplace and suddenly it’s oh, she’s just emotional, etc. When a younger person is expressing that they don’t feel comfortable with something, suddenly they are a snowflake and entitled. Elliott, do you want to add any further comment to that?
Elliott: Yeah agree with Amanda. I think snowflake, entitled, I think they are just easy knee jerk responses to someone in a younger generation, like Amanda said, having an issue with something. I think it’s particularly, again, culture dependent if that’s a word that gets chucked around a lot. I think if that’s just Elliott’s such a snowflake, he’s asked me, he’s asked me to, work from home a different day this week because he’s getting a delivery,
or this or that. I think it’s an easy way to go and you know that bit, that gossip and stuff like that. I think it’s just, like I said, knee jerk, easy way to just convey your dissatisfaction with someone in the younger generation. I think, again, because it’s such a widespread, stereotype, I think that’s where that comes from in terms of it’s the easy response rather than actually looking in and going, okay, why does that request bother me?

Amy: It’s something, thanks Elliott that we talk about a lot in, in, the work we deliver with the organisation is the importance of a sense of curiosity. If somebody’s asking for a request, which is perhaps especially out of, out of their usual behaviour. So it’s about, inquiring underneath that rather than giving that that blank stereotyped answer to someone. Because if they are wanting a change because there’s actually something going on and they are struggling with something, then that needs more of a conversation, right? That needs more, support than simply, just blanket, stereotyping someone.
Angus, what else do we have?
Angus: Yeah, we’ve got, Jim Ruffino psychological safety and a culture of inclusion, he’s saying that is really important. And one of the things that’s interesting is that all three of you have mentioned is psychological safety, being able to speak up, being comfortable about that as well.
So, Debbie, what would you say to that one? Psychological safety and a culture of inclusion.
Debbie: 100 percent agree. I think like you said, each of us have spoken about it in some way, whether it’s you’re right, being comfortable to challenge things, being comfortable to say, Hey, I’m not, even I’m not feeling too well today. Can I just take a moment? Something as small as that. I think it’s very important.
And in any workplace and in any personal relationship that you have as well.
Yep, absolutely. And Elliott?
Elliott: I think it goes back to a lot of what all of us have been saying
can’t have psychological safety because people are walking on eggshells, they’re not sure when it’s okay to speak up and when it’s okay to express themselves, and I think without that, you’re doomed before you start.
Angus: Yep, yep, 100%. Good, okay. Aoife, what do you reckon?
Aoife: Yeah, I completely agree with everything that’s already been said. I think being able to speak openly and, particularly around mental health is becoming less taboo, but It’s not all the way there yet. It’s necessary that your employer, your manager, those above you create that space for you to talk about it because I don’t think people are just going to show up to work ready to, lay things down.
I think that needs to be created by others around you so that you feel comfortable to, to speak and to share your thoughts.
Angus: Thank you.
Amy: Yeah, definitely. I like what, Deborah Agnes has put there, maybe the term snowflake should be reclaimed and redefined, each unique and different, and together they can totally transform the landscape. Woohoo! Go, Deborah Thanks. So, let’s, let’s move on then and hear our top tips, what’s important to you for workplace mental health.
So, if you just want to talk us through, Aoife, we’re starting with you. Find your own balance, you say. Find your own balance. Tell us a little bit about that.
Aoife: Yeah, so I think it’s something that has come up with regards to flexibility, but I just think that’s going to look completely different for everyone. It seems like most employers are, post COVID setting guidelines for employees at the very least of, we would like you in the office, out of the office these many days. But I think within that, thinking about how you work, whether you do work really well from home, whether you thrive being in the office, whether you need that human interaction on a daily basis, whether it tires you out, whether you’re more introverted. Just really reflecting on those things and thinking about how you are best going to do your job while looking after yourself, and implementing that.
Amy: Great. Go for a walk!
Aoife: Yeah.
Amy: Mentioned that already, yeah, what’s so great about that?
Aoife: Yeah, I’m banging on about going outside. I feel like, especially living in Scotland, we don’t get much daylight as it is, and I think, especially in the winter months, it’s really important to just get outside. I think that sitting in an office or, even at home, kind of artificial light, screens, it’s not good for you,
and yeah, just getting some fresh air and getting away from your desk and carving out some time for yourself is a big thing for me.
Amy: Yeah, I think especially during COVID, that really came into its own, didn’t it? We were always talking about, go for that walk commute just round the block and back to your house, just to get that fresh air and light in your eyes. Elliott, it’s on to you. When you put your out of office on for annual leave, remain out of office.
Tell us a bit about that.
Elliott: Yeah, I think it’s really important to unplug when you’re on annual leave, because that is the purpose of annual leave, is to get some time away from work. Some time to spend with loved ones, friends, family, get out and about, like Aoife was saying, go out a walk, go a hike, things like that. I think it’s important to be able to unplug as well.
I think it’s something I’ve had to adjust to. This is the first role where I’ve had a work phone. So even at night, if you get in early enough, with the way our working hours work is you can leave a wee bit earlier. So, maybe someone in England has worked till six and your phone will buzz when you’re at home out of contact from a different office and the temptation to go and look at it or again on annual leave if you’ve got your email out of office on directing people and you hear it buzz and buzz and buzz. I think you can very easily not be unplugged. As I keep saying, I think it’s very easy to pick the phone back up, to do this, to do that, but I think it’s important to be present and in those moments when you’re on annual leave.
Amy: Definitely. Resting is as important, isn’t it? Get the foundations in place. Tell us a little bit about that, Elliott.
Elliott: Similarly, it’s what I’ve been, I think, banging on about all day as well, similar to what Aoife said. I think the foundation is the culture. I think wellbeing is a space that has all these tools and tasks and classes and advice that you can provide and receive, but I think without having a culture, a foundation of like I said earlier, inclusion, as we’ve said in the chat, psychological safety, I think without that in place, all of those tools become fluff.
They’re just there to try and cover the problems and the problem is that foundation wasn’t in place. So I think when you come into a workplace and you’re able to have that good atmosphere and that inclusion, I think that is that foundation and then everything beyond that is just a massive bonus.
Amy: Brilliant. Debbie, don’t let what on social media be your yardstick. Tell us a little bit about that.
Debbie: Yes, I think anyone, any generation, any age can relate to this, because you’ll see on social media people posting their achievements, their first six figures, first million, whatever it is, everyone’s posting something positive on social media, and I think it’s just important to remember that each individual is running a different race and has a different timeline.
So don’t let what you see your peers say they have achieved on social media, which is great, and which each of us will achieve something, but don’t let that be your target or your aim. ’cause yours could be far greater or, and your timeline might look very different to that.
Amy: Absolutely brilliant. be your own self. It’s about perspective, isn’t it? What a great thing to say. Yeah. And take frequent breaks away from your screen.
Debbie: Yeah, I think it’s similar to what everyone else has said. For me that works from home, it can look like eight hours, sometimes even longer depending on demand, working from, looking at a screen. And so it is important to get up, get out, do something on an hourly basis. And I think we have this discussion whereby at home, you’ll see that Teams go from green to yellow and you’ll feel guilty about taking a break at home,
and I think it’s important to remember that if you’re in the office, you probably would do too and not feel guilty. So try and prioritise it, not just lunchtime, but if it’s every 45 minutes or every hour, try and get up
Amy: Yeah,
Debbie: muscles, for your health in general, to be honest.
Amy: Definitely. I think Teams has got a lot to answer for in terms of those, lights, right? thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So a couple of questions for you each. Well, let’s start with just one question for all of you, actually. Let’s start with, 10 years from now, when you will be a senior leader, I’m quite sure, what will you make sure is in place that is perhaps not there right now?
Aoife, do you want to kick us off?
Aoife: Yeah, I touched on this before, but I think, we’ve made a lot of progress with regards to speaking about mental health in the workplace, but there is still some stigma there and there is still a way to go. So I think 10 years from now, I would really hope to be part of, an organisation that’s really fostering a culture where mental health is just a normal part of the conversation and where people feel just as comfortable
to take a day off because they’re feeling mentally unwell as they are feeling physically unwell and that’s just completely normal and part of the status quo. It should be and I think we’re getting there. I hope ten, ten years from now we’ve made it.
Amy: Yeah. Fingers crossed. Elliott, what’s your thoughts? Ten years from now when you’re that senior leader, what’s going to be in place?
Elliott: I think. Fostering that sense of inclusion and the being able to speak and, like Aoife has just said, mental health isn’t, a stigma anymore, I think, but amongst other organizations in the industry, I think that there’s something to be said about different industries across the world having different rates of uptake to, the acceptability almost of mental health issues.
I think a lot more of the, more physical industries, the trades and things like that, I think they’re slower to uptake from what I hear from friends that work in those industries. So I think it would be that similar to what we’re talking about earlier when it was someone in my generation, I think it’s that kind of lead by example and be almost a beacon, an example of what it should look like to other organizations in a sense that
makes them look inward and assess their own situation so that you can impact a whole industry rather than just your organisation.
Amy: Wow. Amazing. Yeah. Debbie, what’s your thoughts?
Debbie: Very similar to Elliott, I was going to say, it would be a leader or part of an organisation that has leaders that practise what they preach. You see a lot of leaders say, take your annual leave or clock out, but they do the complete opposite. When they’re on leave, they’re on their phones, or they’re checking emails, they’re responding to you when they shouldn’t be responding to you.
And so, being someone who, if I do, if I am going to say take your annual leave, when I do take my annual leave, completely dissociate, log out, leave the phone in a different country, city, whatever it is. I think it’s important for people to see leadership by example, and then they will be able to replicate that and not just say, it’s all talk and no action.
Amy: Fantastic. Be that role model. Brilliant. So we’re going to go, into quickfire questions. So that means I’m going to give each of you one question and we’ll just quick question, quick answer. Are you ready? Fingers on buzzers. We’ll start with you, Debbie. Here we go. What does vulnerability mean to you, Debbie?
Debbie: Oh, good question. Wow. Vulnerability. I would say vulnerability looks like, oh gosh, this is a good question. Oh, to me, vulnerability, I would say it’s. It’s being able to open up and it can be something very small to something as big as say for example my dog has died and sometimes in the workplace people don’t feel like they can share certain personal stories and I think I had a leader share about like their mental health issue just a few months ago in the role that he’s in and that to me was quite shocking because you think this person’s always on top of things or appears as if they’re always on top of things.
Amy: Great. I’m going to pause you there just for time purposes. Fabulous. Thank you very much, Debbie. Aoife, over to you. Here’s a question. What’s one of the kindest things you’ve noticed at work?
Aoife: I think that people that really push you forward for your benefit and nothing else is one of the kindest things that I’ve experienced. There’s people that have been mentors to me that really gained nothing it was purely for me, they’ve literally got nothing out of it and that to me is completely selfless.
Amy: Wow, how lovely. Thank you very much for that Aoife. And Elliott, if you could create a new award for someone at work, what would it be for?
Elliott: Oh I guess along what we’ve been talking about, and again, sorry to keep harping back on it, but inclusion or cultural change leader, something like that. And I think to highlight someone that really makes an effort with everyone. I think that’s important to have figures like that in an organization who are there.
Maybe they’re called the chatty or whatever, but them being willing to speak in open and interact with others in the organization, I think that all brings up that atmosphere, brings it into being a good place, and I think recognizing that might encourage others to speak.
Amy: How wonderful. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I’m going to pass the baton on to Angus now.
Angus: Thank you. My experience of Gen Z, all right, is that it’s people with a lot of energy, a lot of excitement, and they work really hard. And what we see here today is exactly that. there’s some really powerful stuff here. You’ve all talked about the importance of community, encouragement, positivity.
Coaching by example. Having the tougher conversations and not shying away from them. Being empowered to speak, feeling capable, independence at work and being trusted. Yeah. Debbie, you said that you like to prove people wrong. What you’re all doing here is you’re definitely proving people wrong.
Also, the three of you have a job offer on the chat there. I don’t know if you’d noticed it. So we would like to thank on behalf of everybody here. Thank you very, very much. That was really interesting, really insightful. It was great having your voices here. Andeep doing that great work that you’re doing and keep going out there and spreading that great message that you are doing.
Thank you very much. Debbie, Aoife and Elliott. Thank you.
Okay, so some dates for your diary, the next Wellbeing Hour is Prudence Pitter. Prudence is Global Head of HR for Amazon Web Services in the Automotive Manufacturing, Healthcare and Life Sciences sector.
She’s going to be talking about the power of authentic leadership. So please join us for that, it’s a slightly later time at 2. 30 in the afternoon, UK time. And, then moving on from there, Amy and myself are at the Scottish Manufacturing and Supply Chain Conference, we’re both speaking there,
so come and see us, come ande’ve got a stand, come and see us there, and also come and hear us speak. And as I mentioned, there’s a Wellbeing Hour with Prudence. At Headtorch, we have solutions for all levels of an organization, senior leaders, people managers, direct and indirect staff. We would love to hear from you of what you’re doing in your organization with workplace mental health and wellbeing.
So please do get in touch. There is a QR code there on the screen. For those of you who are listening to this, you can get in touch with us through Headtorch. org, through the website, Headtorch. org. That’s it from the Wellbeing Hour, so we’d like to thank you on behalf of everybody. Thank you very much for, listening to us and coming along and, we look forward to seeing you next time.
Have a great day.
Amy: Thanks, everyone.